Interview:	THERION
Title:	Multiple monumental

When deserving pioneers like these release something new, fans and experts immediately listen with interest. And rightly so, as the Swedish Symphonic Metal giants Therion reveal with their new album „Leviathan III“.

The current work marks the final completion of the trilogy that began in 2021. As band founder and mastermind, main composer and guitarist Christofer Johnsson can not only look back on an extraordinary career in so many respects since 1988. The Swedish genius has lost none of his compositional intuition, his oversized band vision and his unique flair for great Symphonic Metal with a theatrical-operatic touch. I start by talking to Christofer, who is happy to tell us more about the new album.

Congrats for your new album "Leviathan III" - the fulfilling of the Leviathan trilogy! How does it feel for you?

„It feels like I just ran a marathon and final reached the goal to be honest. It was an insane amount of recordings in such a short time period and we also did touring in the middle of it (albeit a shorter tour than normal, as we left out most of Europe). I have a few months that are rather calm now with just some promotion work and then we will do a world tour supporting the album.“

May the new label situation be fruitful for your art - was it difficult for you to change the company?

„Practically it’s not difficult, but you often need to get used to and adapt to a new way of working of course. But when you change from one big professional label to another one, it’s generally rather smooth. But emotionally it felt a bit weird changing from Nuclear Blast who we had been with for 25 years and who have released over 20 albums and DVD’s with Therion. But it was time to move on and Napalm has shown a great deal of enthusiasm and passion for working with us, so it feels good trying something new as well.“

Guaranteed a lot of work, such a self-contained trilogy ... how was it for the current third part - more or less than for the two predecessors?

„The drums, bass and guitar was recorded at the same time for all 3 albums, it was just vocals, choir, keyboards and orchestration that was done separate. The amount of work was similar, only the choir needed a lot more time for the second and the third album, because we then recorded all choir singers separate instead of recorded as a group in an ensemble. For ‚Leviathan II‘ we did it both ways, for III we did it with just the individual takes. However, the opening track ‚Ninkigal‘ was recorded for ‚Leviathan I‘, bit I decided it would stylewise fit better on ‚III‘, so that song has a choir recorded the normal way and the track ‚Nummo‘ have the same history, except it was taken from the ‚Leviathan II‘ session. There were some track though that were more advanced on this third album. The vocal arrangements for the songs ‚What Was Lost‘ and ‚Unsung Lament‘ were very complex for example.“

What lyrical topics does the newest album transport mainly?

„They are typical Therion lyrics that cover a wide range of mythologies and occult topics. Something new for us was exploring the Turkic mythology, which led us to the use of Turkish language for the first time in the track ‚Ruler Of Tamag‘.“

Awesome new compositions with so many original, catchy and souverän rocking moments, even power und speed passages, all within the well proven Therion style - how do you rate the new album itself compared to its 2 predecessors?

„When we realised we had material for 3 albums, we decided to divide the songs over the albums based on style. The first one being very vocal based song and the most straight forward hit songs. On the second one it was similar, still a focus on hit songs, but more melancholic and darker songs. For the third one we wanted to make an album for the die hard fans who tend to prefer the more adventurous side of the band. So it’s more varied in style and we also experimented with some new things. Like flamenco, a vocal ensemble of Death Metal singers (Death Metal choir?) and even Punk/Hardcore mixed with Opera in one song. This third album is likely to be the least commercially successful in the trilogy, but I predict it will be the most popular one among the due hard fans. Within the band we have different faves among the Leviathans, personally I haven’t made up my mind with I like better, but I probably like the first one the least.“

Who of you guys out of the band did the lion's share of the new song material - you?

„I wrote 3 songs alone, Thomas and Vidal wrote one together and the rest was written by me and Thomas together. We’ve become a very effective songwriting team me and him. That is how we could come up with over 40 songs in just a few months of writing, which was the reason we had enough good material for 3 albums instead of just one, as originally planned.“

How did your collaboration for the new work go?

„We recorded it the same way as the other two parts. In various studios all over the planet. It was a way we were forced to work during the covid lockdowns.“

How was the selection of songs for it done - was it difficult or rather easy for you?

„In general it was easy, it felt very natural which song belonged to which album. There were just 3 songs we were unsure of that we decided to move around.“

Nearly everything has changed since Covid - the world, the music business, the societies - how much have you changed, how much have your views on true art changed now?

„It has changed a lot for the band. We were forced to start recording in a different way, as we all live in different countries and we were not allowed to travel or even be at the same time in the studio or or a rehearsal room. So our way of recording has changed and likely we will partly continue to record this way in the future as well. With some people it worked better this way, with some others it worked worse. It has also changed touring with Europe becoming so expensive to tour that several bands cancelled due to pure financial reasons. We cancelled our previous tour in Europe 90% because we urgently had to fire our booking agent for several reasons and it was too risky to do the tour with them. But the economic situation made the decision easier to take and also the dumb German idea of threatening to reintroduce forced masking was another aspect speaking in favour of at least not relying on German dates in a tour. But fact is that I didn’t mind much not touring at all on ‚Leviathan I‘ and only touring Latin America (+3 gigs in Europe) for ‚Leviathan II‘. I love being on stage, but the older I get, the less I cope with all the travelling and all the time wasted on just waiting every day on tour. When it’s been some years since the previous tour, I always feel thrilled. To get back on stage and to hang with the band again. But after around 2 weeks it starts becoming work rather than fun. I then still enjoy the 2 hours a day on stage, but all the travel and having the same routine every day starts to bore me. And while I still appreciate the company of the great people in the band and crew, seeing the same faces all day week after week means the social bit get a bit routined as well, you have less to talk about after 2 months of touring than you have the first week. So my thoughts have started to circle around cherry picking when it comes to touring. We already gave up touring the US/Canada in 2007, because of unfavourable conditions and less popularity there than in Europe and Latin America. Up til then we had this idea that one should take all the gigs you can get and that every band must try to conquer all the territories. But then I had a burn out and didn’t want to tour as much and then the US/Canada was the weakest market for us (and it was also a bit risky financially there). And that felt fine not playing there. We did some festival or two after that though. It also didn’t feel like a very big deal not doing touring Europe on the last album. We did our 24 shows in Latin America as usual and that more than enough satisfied my hunger for touring. The idea of not touring Europe more than just cherry picking the few best shows crossed my mind. But then we signed with a deal with a new booking agent that has a new a and radically different way of working and I thought we’ll give it a shot doing a full tour in Europe again for this album (and evaluate it afterwards). But in principle we are moving towards a situation where we to at least some extent will be cherry picking. If some country have dumb rules, like German mask mandates, unfair artist taxes or idiotic French demand that artists pay social contribution (unless everyone in the band and crew do a lot of demanding paper work), then maybe we just leave those countries out. I for example just said no to both Wacken and Full Metal Cruise due to unfavourable conditions, that’s something I wouldn’t have done 10 years ago.“

Anything you would like to add?

„We will be doing the first concert with full symphonic orchestra + big choir in 15 years in Mexico City on Jan. 20 next year. It will be huge, our first (headline) arena show ever in 10.000 capacity venue. We already sold well over 6.000 tickets so far, so it will be the biggest Therion headline show ever. So if someone wants to escape the winter and enjoy some sunshine in lovely Mexico, they can combine it with seeing the Therion even of a life time. Also; I decided to do another album with my side project Luciferian Light Orchestra. I still didn’t cut a record deal for it and maybe I’ll just release it my self like with the debut album. We’ll see. I’ll deal with it when all the Therion stuff is out of the way next year.“

Vocal legend Thomas Vikström, who this time also contributed equally ingenious tenor parts, has been part of the Therion line-up since 2009.

With his distinctive and charismatic voice, he has been known to fans of sophisticated vocal performances mainly since the 1992 Candlemass classic "Chapter IV".

He is initially delighted with the praise for his and Lori's vocal performances on "Leviathan III".

Your vocals on the new release are first class across the board - also from throat goddess Lori - I can't get enough of all these brilliant contributions. Lucky for Therion! What do you think of the whole thing?

„Thank you so much!I appreciate that. I am very pleased and proud with how everything became. Not only with my own performance but The whole bands contribution and all guest singers and guest musicians. Stellar job!“

The main title of your album trilogy brings me to think … 'Leviathan' is a cosmic sea monster from Jewish mythology and is said to be defeated by God at the end of the world - what an analogy to the present day - isn't humanity also swimming in a sea of stupidity, ignorance and the hatred that feeds on it? In fact mankind itself is the Leviathan, once may say, isn't it?

„You are right. Politicians especially. But I am not trying to focus too much on that. I try to surround myself with positive things. Life is too short. ‚Leviathan‘ might as well be called The Covid Sessions. But ‚Leviathan‘ sounds a bit cooler.“

Even after so many years, the new material still delivers the well-tried, typical Therion style. I'll never forget the goosebump moments when I listened to "Theli" as my first contact with your music back then, full of delight. What an extraordinary person and spirit Christofer must be, what artistic instincts does the man feel within himself to keep creating something like this?

„Thats a question that Christofer should answer. But it is a true pleasure to work with him. I would say he is a true visionary. Also he is never afraid of doing what he wants despite what other people might think about it. If he wants to do a Hip Hop album believe me he would. ( That was just an example. Don’t worry, that will not happen).“

"Of Darkness" as the band's debut album was released back in 1991, three years after the formation at that time - how much did you take part in it in terms of interest and did you ever hope, think or even believe in your wildest dreams that Therion would eventually be around for over 30 years?

„I have no really relation to those very early albums. But yes, Its great to have a band lasting for 10 years. To be around for 30 years is a blessing.“

Therion still has so much to say after such a long time with active musicians and especially as composers and extraordinary thematics - what is your personal creative recipe to keep coming across as so immensely uplifting and deeply inspired?

„It all comes down to good songs. I personally don’t sit around and wait for inspiration to come. I just sit down and write, and hopefully something good comes out of it. There are no recipe to that. Sometimes something by coincidence comes up that gives an immediate inspiration for a song, but most of the time I work and the more I work inspiration seems to come by itself.“

Regarding the trilogy, now it ends with III, would you say the thematic end in the story is a good one for the participants?

„Since its a trilogy it ends with ‚III‘. From the start we were about to make one album. But we wrote so many songs that Christofer came up with the idea of making three instead. Good idea if you ask me. So on number one we collected the best “Commercial” songs, on the second the songs with a little darker atmosphere and on the third one we go bananas. its more experimental and sometimes progressive.“

Please be so kind and bring the songs a bit closer each to the readers with a few sentences, composition and lyric wise etc.

„I can not give so much feedback on the lyrics since those are written by our lyricist Per Albinsson. (perhaps there are various similarities in some points with the circumstances in the world today - after all, all myths, legends and traditions still have a core that is still valid today, because despite all the technical achievements, man has unfortunately not changed or developed in himself - still religious fanatics etc.).

1. ‚Ninkigal‘ 03:06:
This is the opening track written by Christofer. A fast track with death vocals and female classical vocals. A great track.

2. ‚Ruler Of Tamag‘ 06:44:
This song separates from the others because it was written before we started to write for ‚Leviathan‘. I wrote this song with Tarja Turunen in mind and thought about giving it to her. But I let Christofer listen first and he liked it a lot. So he said: Let’s ‚Therionize‘ it a little. And the result speaks for itself.

3. ‚An Unsung Lament‘ 06:58:
One of those epic songs. The layers of voices in this one is incredible. I remember our sound engineer Daniel Saiz was sweating during his work on this while we recorded it. I remember when we wrote it and it was just growing and growing.

4. ‚Maleficium‘ 03:34:
Christofer wrote this song. This was my least favourite from the beginning and now it is my favourite song from the album. Its a very progressive piece of music and the vocal melody is written very high as usual when Christofer writes a melody for me. I think its a song that will grow on people with time.

5. ‚Ayahuasca‘ 07:57:
Another big song written by Johnsson-Vikström. It also has a lot of vocal layers and twisted turns. Its about the brew Ayahuasca that some people calls the little death.

6. ‚Baccanale‘ 03:52:
If Im not wrong we wrote this song pretty early on in the ‚Leviathan‘ sessions. Chris wrote the Riffs and the background for this and I wrote the melodies and vocal arrangements. Christian Vidal plays an incredible solo in this one.

7. ‚Midsommarblot‘ 03:04:
I am very into folklore and world music. This one is written when I missed Sweden and the Swedish summer. Its another favourite of mine. I really like the harmonics in this song. It has a touch of Nordic folk music in it.

8. ‚What Was Lost Shall Be Lost No More‘ 03:59:
Since I don’t write lyrics for Therion I sing made up words on the demos. So does Chris in the extreme rare moments when he sings an idea on a demo. This song was sung like this in the chorus: ‚Where did I put my winter cape? Must be lost in the pouring rain. Where did I put my winter shoes? Lost them in the summer blues’ or something like that. A melodic song sung by Rosalia Sairem and a little of Thomas V as well. A very nice chorus on this song.

9. ‚Duende‘ 04:18:
This song came about by inspiration. The TV was on way too loud in the living room and I went to turn it down. And there was a documentary about flamenco and Spanish music. I got stuck a bit into the program and I thought: How about writing something inspired of this and infuse it with Therion? You never know until you try so I tried. And it became ‚Duende‘. Christopher gave it thumbs up. I let Vidal write some of the fantastic acoustic guitar parts and Rosalia write some of the lyrics since she knows this shit. I also invited the trombone player Davis Morris Garcia and the trumpet player Dani “NOOO” Romero to play on the song. Fantastic musicians. Its a cool song and very different. Might not be something for the Metal people, but I DON'T CARE! WE like it.

10. ‚Nummo‘ 02:30:
I like this song. I don’t remember when or how we wrote this song. I think Its both mine and Christofer’s melody on this. It must have been written early in the ‚Leviathan‘ sessions.

11. ‚Twilight Of The Gods‘ 06:23:
The doomiest song. Written by Christofer. Here my old friend Mats Leven makes a guest appearance. Great as always. I think the fans will appreciate this song a lot.“

About the videos on youtube - I'm watching the wonderful song "Ruler Of Tamag" by now and find it also visual-wise pretty fine done and interesting - are you also such satisfied with the result? I say you can, absolutely. It's one of the best music vides I've ever seen.

„Thanks a lot. Yes I am. We used AI on this one as an experiment. Im not sure if I like that idea or not. At least its worth a try and we did.“

Sure it was hell of a work for Carlos Toro from Abysmo Films! One can read there that he has been shooting your video clips for the last 13 years - I'm sure an excellent way of working together has developed over the years, where one knows the other very well and things run very smoothly, don't you think?

„Yeah, That guy is amazing. And Its true. We like things to go smooth, and with him its always smooth and nice. No problem.“

"Twilight Of The Gods", which is also simply wonderfully vocalized, is also worth seeing and stands out from the monotony of the Symphonic / Gothic Metal video world. Would you like to tell us a little about this video?

„I just sit back and enjoy it. I think Its a question that Carlos should answer.“

Now that the "Leviathan" trilogy is finished with the current release - do you guys already have plans for more great concept works?

„Feels good to release the third one the 15th of December. And 2024 will be a year of touring which I love. After that I don’t know. But will it be more Therion albums? YES IT WILL!!!“

© Markus Eck, 22.11.2023

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